Musings and Snippets from a recently retired JP. I served for 31 years, mostly in west London. I was Chairman of my Bench for some years, and a member of the National Bench Chairmen's Forum All cases are based on real ones, but anonymised and composited. All opinions are those of one or more individuals. JPs swear to enforce the law of the land, whether or not they approve of it. Nothing on here constitutes legal advice.
Thursday, July 02, 2015
Legal Aid - A Look At The Reality
This article goes some way to correct the continuing untruth that criminal defence lawyers are little better than their clients.
Bearing in mind that a fair proportion of people that pass through the system DO have mental health issues is not well recognised. There is a situation where everyone is treated the same and from the police point of view that is you are guilty. Injustice comes in many forms and some of the worst happen when vulnerable people are brow beat in difficult circumstances. They might well have done the act but often did not have the capacity or intention to make it a crime.
Whilst it is true that there are some huge fees still paid to a small number of lawyers, the vast majority of lawyers who do legal aid and get very modest fees. There must be a way of devising a LA system that can pay a decent sum to the majority and curtail the huge fees paid in these high profile cases. however, if things keep going as they are I can see the whole system collapsing.
Trouble is that the "huge fees" are the result of those particular cases being quite spectacularly difficult, complex and lengthy. The biggest case I did required two solicitors working on it virtually full time for about two-years with other lawyers assisting constantly throughout that time. The trial then took another 4 months. And that wasn't even close to some of the really big cases that cause these huge fees!
As solicitors and some barristers join the boycott of the legal aid system, (and I certainly understand why they have felt forced to do this) I fear that we will only see increasing chaos in the courts.
I am already aware that one Magistrates' Court (in Manchester I think but I could be wrong on location) has had to sit until 7pm and still did not manage to get through the work due to the lack of legal advice to defendants sorely in need of it.
This is not a criticism of the lawyers - many are barely earning enough to stay off of top up benefits themselves.
You don't see any solicitors firms going bust and I don't see any evidence of poor lawyers. There is no divine right for lawyers to be paid large sums.. Just keeping off top up benefits is what 40000 a year. My heart bleeds. If Lawyers refuse to dirty their hands then someone will come in to fill the void left. That's the way Capitalism works.
You do see solicitors' firms going bust, every day. I know criminal barristers who are facing bankruptcy and homelessness, who need in-work benefits to stay afloat, who are making a third of the living wage for the hours they work. Struggling to think of any who would be on £40k though.
Maybe you were thinking of private commercial firms in the City? But then that would be like saying you wanted A&E nurses to be out of work because Harley St consultants are expensive.
" I know criminal barristers who are facing bankruptcy and homelessness, who need in-work benefits to stay afloat, who are making a third of the living wage for the hours they work"
Speak to Len McClusky. I feel sure he will help those affected.
I presume you're paid as a hospital doctor? Magistrates aren't. District Judges, who are paid, are usually conspicuous by their absence when courts sit late
Except, of course, when the Government of the day want some control over the outcomes, as in the riots of 2011. Lay Magistrates were significantly sidelined then and DJs worked through the night - worrying times.
@anon 1.10 true. One could consider such rare matters are covered by their salary too.
@Tony - I presume the ethics committee attendance was pre-arranged and agreed to? Unlike late running courts. I'd have thought DJs generous salaries included a bit of flexibility for things like that? In the real world paid managers are often expected to do extra unpaid work.
Without the rule of law your life would be governed by the strongest, which means those with the most money who can command the strongest and biggest group of armed men to enforce their rules!
Posts are pre-moderated. Please bear with us if this takes a little time, but the number of bores and obsessives was getting out of hand, as were the fake comments advertising rubbish.
Bearing in mind that a fair proportion of people that pass through the system DO have mental health issues is not well recognised. There is a situation where everyone is treated the same and from the police point of view that is you are guilty. Injustice comes in many forms and some of the worst happen when vulnerable people are brow beat in difficult circumstances. They might well have done the act but often did not have the capacity or intention to make it a crime.
ReplyDeleteWhilst it is true that there are some huge fees still paid to a small number of lawyers, the vast majority of lawyers who do legal aid and get very modest fees. There must be a way of devising a LA system that can pay a decent sum to the majority and curtail the huge fees paid in these high profile cases. however, if things keep going as they are I can see the whole system collapsing.
Trouble is that the "huge fees" are the result of those particular cases being quite spectacularly difficult, complex and lengthy. The biggest case I did required two solicitors working on it virtually full time for about two-years with other lawyers assisting constantly throughout that time. The trial then took another 4 months. And that wasn't even close to some of the really big cases that cause these huge fees!
DeleteAs solicitors and some barristers join the boycott of the legal aid system, (and I certainly understand why they have felt forced to do this) I fear that we will only see increasing chaos in the courts.
ReplyDeleteI am already aware that one Magistrates' Court (in Manchester I think but I could be wrong on location) has had to sit until 7pm and still did not manage to get through the work due to the lack of legal advice to defendants sorely in need of it.
This is not a criticism of the lawyers - many are barely earning enough to stay off of top up benefits themselves.
You don't see any solicitors firms going bust and I don't see any evidence of poor lawyers. There is no divine right for lawyers to be paid large sums.. Just keeping off top up benefits is what 40000 a year. My heart bleeds. If Lawyers refuse to dirty their hands then someone will come in to fill the void left. That's the way Capitalism works.
DeleteOh dear, 7 p.m. ! You should try being a junior hospital doctor.
DeleteYou do see solicitors' firms going bust, every day. I know criminal barristers who are facing bankruptcy and homelessness, who need in-work benefits to stay afloat, who are making a third of the living wage for the hours they work. Struggling to think of any who would be on £40k though.
DeleteMaybe you were thinking of private commercial firms in the City? But then that would be like saying you wanted A&E nurses to be out of work because Harley St consultants are expensive.
benefits taper off at about 40k. IIRC...
Delete" I know criminal barristers who are facing bankruptcy and homelessness, who need in-work benefits to stay afloat, who are making a third of the living wage for the hours they work"
Speak to Len McClusky. I feel sure he will help those affected.
Are there any statistics available on how much these high profile cases can cost?
ReplyDelete(It might be interesting, for example, to see a breakdown between legal aid costs at the magistrates' courts and at the Crown courts).
I presume you're paid as a hospital doctor? Magistrates aren't. District Judges, who are paid, are usually conspicuous by their absence when courts sit late
ReplyDeleteExcept, of course, when the Government of the day want some control over the outcomes, as in the riots of 2011. Lay Magistrates were significantly sidelined then and DJs worked through the night - worrying times.
DeleteNot paid at all when sitting on a long Ethics Committee which starts at 6:30 p.m.
Delete@anon 1.10 true. One could consider such rare matters are covered by their salary too.
Delete@Tony - I presume the ethics committee attendance was pre-arranged and agreed to? Unlike late running courts. I'd have thought DJs generous salaries included a bit of flexibility for things like that? In the real world paid managers are often expected to do extra unpaid work.
I don't think nano technology has developed a violin small enough to express sympathy for lawyers.
ReplyDeleteMy solution would be to get rid of lawyers. We only need lawyers because there are lawyers.
You need lawyers because there are laws!
DeleteWithout the rule of law your life would be governed by the strongest, which means those with the most money who can command the strongest and biggest group of armed men to enforce their rules!
If you ever have to defend yourself in court you'll see the value of a good lawyer.
ReplyDelete