Musings and Snippets from a recently retired JP. I served for 31 years, mostly in west London. I was Chairman of my Bench for some years, and a member of the National Bench Chairmen's Forum All cases are based on real ones, but anonymised and composited. All opinions are those of one or more individuals. JPs swear to enforce the law of the land, whether or not they approve of it. Nothing on here constitutes legal advice.
If it weren't for the presence of Damian Green I'd put this one straight from the Blair school of right-on-ness. Plenty of the demotic, lots of 'getting out into the community' and 'life skills' plus the occasional show-stopper, such as "You can never make judgements, you have to be objective...". And breezy appeals to common sense, cutting red tape and hanging about.
Who's this made for I wonder? And what did it cost to make? If it's not really a vapid load of window-dressing but actually a cunningly crafted piece of agenda setting what's in store ? Do we presume that the issue of night and week-end courts is still live?!
Two things struck me. First, no mention was made of the serious reduction in magistrate numbers over recent years (Down by almost a quarter). Second, Damian Green said he wanted to make better use of magistrates, but not a word on how that might be achieved. Even the vox-pops were old hat; nothing I hadn't heard trotted out time and again, and I retired six years ago.
As a brand spanking new JP (so new I haven't even been sworn in yet) I am heartened somewhat, or at least I think I am. A generally positive message. There is more flesh on the bone on the MA site, which includes a press release entitled "Reforming the Role of Magistrates". Worth a read.
I have had the feeling that I may have joined the ranks a little too late, that maybe the role of the magistrate will be diminished to the point of eventual extinction. Only time will tell but change is inevitable and not always for the worse. Perhaps I will be part of a new and revitalised magistracy? Fingers crossed.
I'm a year in, my friend, and I share your optimism. The judicial system is definitely being squeezed and its shape is changing. At one end, the use of FPN and Community Resolution strategies by police are quite rightly helping to unclog courts with lengthy and unnecessary case management files. At the other end, District Judges are paid a little over £100K and while perhaps more efficient than a bench, it doesn't seem cost-effective to dispense with magistrates completely.
I've not travelled extensively (mainly Europe and two sojourns to South America) but I have come across a widespread suspicion of corruption when faced with a 'professionals-only' justice system. With ordinary folk on the bench, the very least the public can expect is ordinary common sense. These 'ordinary' folk need to be carefully selected, regularly trained and well-advised in order to deal with the large majority of society's petty lawbreakers and ne'er-do-wells. The spirit of the Magna Carta lives on, despite our changing times!
I have been reading that in the past most sons of the gentry finished off their education with a sort of stage at the inns of court, not in order to become barristers, but as a preparation to their duties as landlords and, possibly, members of the house of Commons. Can it be that this was the origin of the idea, that you needn't be a qualified lawyer to be a J.P.? That members of the gentry generally had a smattering of the law, without any formal qualification?
Spot on WOTL. 17% increase in DJ numbers while mags reduced. Where can this end up I wonder. Mags in the community but outside the criminal justice system. Within 5 years.
Ahhhhh .... law on the cheap again! No knocking what magistrates do, its just the reasoning and drive for this is financial, not based on equity or justice
Please remember these reforms come from a Tory and Libdem coalition government! You will have your say in less than two years. Can anyone vote Conservative ever again? (Don't worry, Dave has a good job lined up, and Nick will go and be a European Commissioner) Come on Nigel, bring back British values and common sense, the epitome of the lay magistrate
A Sheriff costs £128k per annum. A JP is essentially free - some (but certainly not all) claim loss of earnings; if they were full time that would be about £29k at the very most. Other costs for sitting are broadly similar. Not seen anything that suggests Sheriffs are more efficient at case management than JPs. Looks like your DJs are a wee bit cheaper but the same logic will apply.
It is good to recognise the familiar trope of the authority figure borrowing the gravitas and authority of the printed word; the Minister speaks in front of his bookcases.
I am always intrigued to see which titles are on display (how sad is that?). In this case those titles that are legible are unexceptionable: Peele, Burke, Callaghan, Clinton, Roosevelt, George III (although I’m slightly puzzled by something called ‘Citygirl’). The presence of Ruderman’s ‘A History of Ashford’ chimes with a work devoted to the Eurotunnel on the neighbouring shelf. Also on the top shelf is Douglas Jay’s ‘The Socialist Case’ (1937) which suggests a commendably non-partisan breadth of reading, but the book next to it is incongruous: a paperbound copy of Robin Hobbs’ ‘Fool’s Errand’– a work of popular fantasy fiction. The effect is slightly diminished.
The minister should put his jacket on if he wants gravitas. Is it too much to expect a holder of high office not to address the nation his shirtsleeves?
I don't pretend to know what it is all about. Damien Green's statement that he wants to make better use of magistrates seems to me to be the equivalent of an expression by a Prime Minister of total confidence in a Minister, who is thus forewarned that he's likely to be out of a job within days. I was intrigued by the statement by on of the JPs that we don't make judgments! If I'm charitable, I think that perhaps she meant that we are not judgemental.
The sub text of at least one of the (carefully-coached) speakers was that more work should stay in the magistrates court and not go to the Crown Court.
By the way, does elf and safety allow bottles of water ranged around courtrooms?
Years ago a very senior member of the court service told me that JPs were far more expensive than (then) stipes as the opportunity cost of mag had to be included (at the then average annual salary of the population). Now no doubt they have dropped that but include the costs of all legal advisers, JP training, property costs of courts which could be closed if all work was done by DJs, etc etc.
You still need courts, you still need court staff, you still need clerks (albeit not legally trained), you still need to train DJ's (which they won't generally do at weekends and evenings 'in their own time').
The only way DJs will be more efficient is if the accept less churn and get through more cases quicker - IF that is the case then JP's need to step up their game.
The video said nothing. I do wonder what prompted it. It didn't say anything about what we do. I suspect the vast majority of the population know zero about the magistrates court system. This won't have added much.
Please beware of watching this video in isolation since it needs to be viewed in the light of Damian Green's speech to Magistrates which preceded it. I have a link on my blog:
There are some realities to be handled. (1) DJs(MC) are here to stay. (2) The number of Magistrates' Courts will be reduced further in the not too far away future. I would therefore strongly recommend JPs to engage as fully as possible with Mr Green on this initiative and to put forward any other ideas they may have as to how JPs might be usefully used in the future.
Posts are pre-moderated. Please bear with us if this takes a little time, but the number of bores and obsessives was getting out of hand, as were the fake comments advertising rubbish.
So are we recruiting again?
ReplyDeleteIf it weren't for the presence of Damian Green I'd put this one straight from the Blair school of right-on-ness. Plenty of the demotic, lots of 'getting out into the community' and 'life skills' plus the occasional show-stopper, such as "You can never make judgements, you have to be objective...". And breezy appeals to common sense, cutting red tape and hanging about.
ReplyDeleteWho's this made for I wonder? And what did it cost to make? If it's not really a vapid load of window-dressing but actually a cunningly crafted piece of agenda setting what's in store ? Do we presume that the issue of night and week-end courts is still live?!
Two things struck me. First, no mention was made of the serious reduction in magistrate numbers over recent years (Down by almost a quarter). Second, Damian Green said he wanted to make better use of magistrates, but not a word on how that might be achieved. Even the vox-pops were old hat; nothing I hadn't heard trotted out time and again, and I retired six years ago.
ReplyDeleteAs a brand spanking new JP (so new I haven't even been sworn in yet) I am heartened somewhat, or at least I think I am. A generally positive message. There is more flesh on the bone on the MA site, which includes a press release entitled "Reforming the Role of Magistrates". Worth a read.
ReplyDeleteI have had the feeling that I may have joined the ranks a little too late, that maybe the role of the magistrate will be diminished to the point of eventual extinction. Only time will tell but change is inevitable and not always for the worse. Perhaps I will be part of a new and revitalised magistracy? Fingers crossed.
I'm a year in, my friend, and I share your optimism. The judicial system is definitely being squeezed and its shape is changing. At one end, the use of FPN and Community Resolution strategies by police are quite rightly helping to unclog courts with lengthy and unnecessary case management files. At the other end, District Judges are paid a little over £100K and while perhaps more efficient than a bench, it doesn't seem cost-effective to dispense with magistrates completely.
DeleteI've not travelled extensively (mainly Europe and two sojourns to South America) but I have come across a widespread suspicion of corruption when faced with a 'professionals-only' justice system. With ordinary folk on the bench, the very least the public can expect is ordinary common sense. These 'ordinary' folk need to be carefully selected, regularly trained and well-advised in order to deal with the large majority of society's petty lawbreakers and ne'er-do-wells. The spirit of the Magna Carta lives on, despite our changing times!
(PS All the very best for your swearing in...)
I have been reading that in the past most sons of the gentry finished off their education with a sort of stage at the inns of court, not in order to become barristers, but as a preparation to their duties as landlords and, possibly, members of the house of Commons. Can it be that this was the origin of the idea, that you needn't be a qualified lawyer to be a J.P.? That members of the gentry generally had a smattering of the law, without any formal qualification?
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone actually believe what was said lately by Green? It is all smoke and mirrors to cover their true agenda, which is replacing JPs with DJs.
ReplyDeleteSpot on WOTL. 17% increase in DJ numbers while mags reduced. Where can this end up I wonder. Mags in the community but outside the criminal justice system. Within 5 years.
ReplyDeleteYawn.......
ReplyDeleteAhhhhh .... law on the cheap again! No knocking what magistrates do, its just the reasoning and drive for this is financial, not based on equity or justice
ReplyDeletePlease remember these reforms come from a Tory and Libdem coalition government! You will have your say in less than two years. Can anyone vote Conservative ever again? (Don't worry, Dave has a good job lined up, and Nick will go and be a European Commissioner) Come on Nigel, bring back British values and common sense, the epitome of the lay magistrate
ReplyDeleteAre DJ's cheaper the mags? Sheriff courts are more expensive than JP courts north of the border... so not sure its an economic driver.
ReplyDeleteMore expensive per case?
DeleteA Sheriff costs £128k per annum. A JP is essentially free - some (but certainly not all) claim loss of earnings; if they were full time that would be about £29k at the very most. Other costs for sitting are broadly similar. Not seen anything that suggests Sheriffs are more efficient at case management than JPs. Looks like your DJs are a wee bit cheaper but the same logic will apply.
DeleteYou accidentally left out the cost of the Legal Adviser, and the increased time taken per case for JPs.
DeleteIt is good to recognise the familiar trope of the authority figure borrowing the gravitas and authority of the printed word; the Minister speaks in front of his bookcases.
ReplyDeleteI am always intrigued to see which titles are on display (how sad is that?). In this case those titles that are legible are unexceptionable: Peele, Burke, Callaghan, Clinton, Roosevelt, George III (although I’m slightly puzzled by something called ‘Citygirl’). The presence of Ruderman’s ‘A History of Ashford’ chimes with a work devoted to the Eurotunnel on the neighbouring shelf. Also on the top shelf is Douglas Jay’s ‘The Socialist Case’ (1937) which suggests a commendably non-partisan breadth of reading, but the book next to it is incongruous: a paperbound copy of Robin Hobbs’ ‘Fool’s Errand’– a work of popular fantasy fiction. The effect is slightly diminished.
The minister should put his jacket on if he wants gravitas. Is it too much to expect a holder of high office not to address the nation his shirtsleeves?
DeletePropoganda plain and simple.
ReplyDeleteI don't pretend to know what it is all about.
ReplyDeleteDamien Green's statement that he wants to make better use of magistrates seems to me to be the equivalent of an expression by a Prime Minister of total confidence in a Minister, who is thus forewarned that he's likely to be out of a job within days.
I was intrigued by the statement by on of the JPs that we don't make judgments! If I'm charitable, I think that perhaps she meant that we are not judgemental.
The sub text of at least one of the (carefully-coached) speakers was that more work should stay in the magistrates court and not go to the Crown Court.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, does elf and safety allow bottles of water ranged around courtrooms?
Years ago a very senior member of the court service told me that JPs were far more expensive than (then) stipes as the opportunity cost of mag had to be included (at the then average annual salary of the population). Now no doubt they have dropped that but include the costs of all legal advisers, JP training, property costs of courts which could be closed if all work was done by DJs, etc etc.
ReplyDeleteYou still need courts, you still need court staff, you still need clerks (albeit not legally trained), you still need to train DJ's (which they won't generally do at weekends and evenings 'in their own time').
DeleteThe only way DJs will be more efficient is if the accept less churn and get through more cases quicker - IF that is the case then JP's need to step up their game.
The video said nothing. I do wonder what prompted it. It didn't say anything about what we do. I suspect the vast majority of the population know zero about the magistrates court system. This won't have added much.
ReplyDeletePlease beware of watching this video in isolation since it needs to be viewed in the light of Damian Green's speech to Magistrates which preceded it. I have a link on my blog:
ReplyDeletehttp://obiterj.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/thursday-roundup.html
There are some realities to be handled. (1) DJs(MC) are here to stay. (2) The number of Magistrates' Courts will be reduced further in the not too far away future. I would therefore strongly recommend JPs to engage as fully as possible with Mr Green on this initiative and to put forward any other ideas they may have as to how JPs might be usefully used in the future.
Written in Bollocks and performed in Bollocks, the language of choice of MoJ and most government departments.
ReplyDeleteReminded me a bit of the Ministry or Truth in 1984
ReplyDeleteNot as accurate or reliable as that.
ReplyDeleteI sign in to this blog to find out what YOU think about things, BS.
ReplyDeleteKate Caveat