In response to a desperate plea from the court at about half-past-four yesterday afternoon, I agreed to sit today. We dealt with a fairly standard remand list of about two dozen cases , which resulted in the usual range of sentences, from a couple of Conditional Discharges and a few fines to a two month prison sentence. We were just about finished with our list and preparing to go home when the clerk threw himself on our mercy, asking us to clear up the tail-end of Court Four's list that was running well behind. Two of us agreed to help, releasing a colleague who had childcare commitments, and we sat down to tackle a huge heap of Council prosecutions for dropping litter - mostly involving a cigarette butt.
Our local Council has hired a squad of litter-control people, who issue a fixed penalty ticket when they see litter being deposited. I think that it's £30 if you pay up within 14 days, more if you don't. If (as many do) you ignore the notice and the ensuing written warning, you will be reported for prosecution. Only one chap turned up, so we sentenced him by the book (on benefits, so deemed income £110 per week, less a third for the plea, plus the pesky surcharge of £20, plus the Council's costs of £100.) That's a lot of money for a fag end, but all of the other cases didn't even get the third-off for a plea of guilty since they hadn't responded to the summons.
I still have trouble squaring a penalty of (all-in) a few hundred quid for dropping a sweet wrapper when we only charge £60 for jumping a red light, an offence that can and does kill people.
Don't blame me, guv, I don't make the rules.
I've been wondering, how do these litter control people identify culprits? They aren't police, so presumably they can't compel you to identify yourself - what is to stop you just walking away when they try to give you the notice? When it comes to court, what kind of evidence do they present?
ReplyDeleteThey film the offender and the litter, and call the police if the chap doesn't identify himself. Most do, but the language is sometimes unseemly.
DeleteBut they have no power to detain you pending arrival of the boys in blue. Any physical attempt to detain would be an assault.
DeleteIn fact in my locale the usual modus operandi is to set up shop at a likely venue with a plain clothes officer standing by while the council oik does his bit. A very good use of an expensive police resource, don't you think?
So they are relying on people not realising they can just walk away? Sooner or later people are going to cotton on and this practice of using people without warrant cards to enforce the law will stop working...
DeleteWhere's the justice? But at the same time litters should be hammered as they make the whole place look a mess
ReplyDeleteAgreed, litter is a curse.
ReplyDeleteBut......
In my city centre the litter bins are usually overflowing. Perhaps the council might consider getting them emptied more regularly? Perhaps the fast food chains could do more too? How about a reduction in the number of people handing out flyers that invariably get chucked away a nano second after being handed over? I would expect that the largely useless PCSOs (or however they style themselves these days) could be encouraged to get (more) involved.
I hate litter but I also have an intense dislike for council workers being given the power to issue fines. They have no power of discretion and even if they did you can be quite sure that it wouldn't get used. As far as I'm concerned, the only organisations that should have the power to dish out fines are the Police via FPNs and the courts.
PCSOs are no more police officers than council workers are, so are they really any better?
DeletePerhaps not, but they do have the power to detain you for 30 minutes!
DeleteOnly £30? What about people sanctioned by the DWP: can easily be over £1000 for a FIRST 'offence', judged by 2 'servants' or bureaurats - i.e. NO impartiality, especially with 'quotas' & with NO right of appeal. Why is there no judical review on this for being 'fair and reasonable'???
ReplyDeleteMy problem is not so much that people get a fixed penalty or even end up in court but when seen by one of the litter control people dropping a cigarette end they are not, at first, told to pick it up and put it in a litter bin or they will get a ticket. If they refuse they should then get the ticket, but not before.
ReplyDeleteThey can't catch every litterer, so they need those they do catch to serve as a deterrent. Simply having to pick it up wouldn't be much of a deterrent.
DeleteAre they there to provide income for the local authority or to keep the streets clear of litter?
DeleteI'm surprised the council can afford to employ a team of snoopers in our current straitened times, so clearly they get to keep the fixed penalty income. So here we are with another scam on the public. They are doing it for the money, not to keep the streets clean.
ReplyDeleteGenerally, CCTV identifications are very easy to challenge if there is a competent expert and no other corroborating.
ReplyDeleteHow is it £60 for going through a red light? If you're referring to the standard Fixed Penalty Notice issued by the police that went up to £100 around a year ago.
ReplyDeleteI haven't sat in a traffic court for years. The guideline is a fine A (varies according to income) and three points. I don't know about FPNs because we don't deal with them.
ReplyDeleteThis is perhaps a case when Saudi Arabia has it right on red light jumping:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-29345631