Nobody who works in the justice system will be surprised to read this article.
This was clearly a Crown Court case, and I suspect that most magistrates' courts would do a little better - at least mine would. We are meticulous about witness care and such things as waiting facilities, but nothing much can be done about the endless hanging around.
A sadly familiar tale. I sincerely hope it wasn't pleaded down to an ABH, although I wouldn't be at all surprised...we have many a discussion in the retiring room about 'undercharging' which now seems endemic...
ReplyDelete> nothing much can be done about the endless hanging around.
ReplyDeleteThat's not true. A lot could be done. Witnesses with phones could be told to have fun wandering outside, or sitting in a coffee shop, as long as they were within 10 minutes call.
Whether in a boring room in a court house, probably with nothing to read, or wandering around or in a coffee shop, it's still not where a witness chooses to be and is 'hanging around'.
DeleteActually Magistrates Courts are just as bad as Crown Courts for messing people around. Granted you get a definite date for a hearing which is good. But the system is completely overloaded and the smallest problem anywhere in the trial process throws the whole thing into total disarray. For example recently I was warned for a trial at my local Mags. All the parties for my case turned up on time but the prosecutor who was covering the overnight cases didn't so the prosecutor who was supposed to be dealing with my trial was sent to deal with the overnights instead. The victim, witness and defendant were kept waiting for 3 hours before the trial could start. And heaven forfend that you have a trial which overruns. I had a nightmare case with three 12 year old witnesses, all of whom had given ABE interviews (the victim's lasted 2 hours). One day was allocated for the trial. What a joke. The case was part heard and adjourned 5 times over a period of about 4 months. Eventually the defendant was convicted and sentenced. Then he appealed and we had to go through the whole palaver again in the crown court. Try explaining that process to a child witness.
ReplyDeleteHaving said all of that, try to rationally explain the 'overnight warning' and the concept of the 'floating trial' that feature in the Crown Court system to a lay person. The only people that it suits are the barristers. It's completely rubbish for the victim, the witnesses and the defendant.
The warned list/floating trial system do not benefit the barristers one jot. We have no influence whatsoever on what will be called in and when. Last week two of my cases came in when I could not do them. On one case that means I will be paid around £100 for one morning in court (an hour's travel away, each way), plus one meeting with the client (an hour meeting, an hour away, each way), plus about six hours' preparation, a lot of which was dealing with psych reports. On the other case my fee will be similar, except that the meeting lasted three hours not one, and the preparation was around 30 hours, due to having to compile an 800-page schedule of chat messages. It is a system that is unfair not just to witnesses and defendants, but also to the lawyers who have to pick up cases with several lever arch files full of evidence the night before. It benefits only the court. It must stop.
ReplyDeleteThe system is rubbish everyone knows but nobody seems able or willing to mend it. I can't – I don't have the skills or the experience. I can, though, tell you who suffers most and that is the witness for the prosecution. Usually the witness is told to arrive at court 15 minutes before the start of the day's proceedings even though everyone knows they wont be called for at least a couple of hours. They are shown into a room often with several other witness, either for their case or perhaps another going on in another court and are never told not to discuss the proceedings. Frequently they are often left for hours without being advised what is happening by anyone from the court although the ushers will sometimes try and help. The lawyers are very busy and squeezing in time to keep the witness updated seems to be less important than all the myriad of other things they have to deal with. The witness, like this reporter for the Telegraph is only doing what they see as their duty - they saw something happen and they reported it. But unlike this reporter they are usually not so erudite. They are usually very worried and have with no experience whatsoever of the courts and the thought of standing up before a bench of Magistrates or a Judge and jury is terrifying. If they are lucky, after 2 or 3 hours, they are told the case won't go ahead for one reason or another and the nerves evaporate but they have to come back another day and go through the whole thing again. If they do eventually get called into court a lawyer tries to imply they are mistaken if not actually lying. Maybe if they are really lucky the case is concluded and a sentence is imposed. Usually that sentence seems to give the defendant much less cause for concern than what the witness has been going though ever since they heard they were being called. Is it surprising that many people will refuse to give evidence again once they have been through is process? Remember you can always get another bench, judge or jury in a case but without the witnesses the system's stuffed. Unless the courts find a way to treat witnesses with more consideration the whole system will fail, but its doing that already isn't it?
ReplyDeleteI have been both a paralegal criminal defence practitioner and a witness. I understand the court process and knew the judge, court clerk and both defence and prosecution barristers well when I was a witness. I still found it a daunting experience (incidentally Anon 10:17, you need to be aware that there are both prosecution AND defence witnesses). It seems to me that there is no-one in the process who has any responsibility for the welfare of the witnesses. There is victim support for the main defence witness, but no-one for the others.
ReplyDeleteAs a defence representative sitting behind barristers I used to talk to our witnesses and explain the process, but the primary duty there was to support the barrister and, once the case started, I had to be in court while the witnesses, obviously had to be outside. With legal aid cuts there is even less likelihood of anyone being available to support witnesses.
What makes you think I am unaware there are defence witnesses Newchodge? I didn't mention them because I was talking about the witness for the prosecution who, I believe, suffers more than anyone in our failing court system (see the second sentence of my post). You say that "As a defence representative sitting behind barristers I used to talk to our witnesses and explain the process" but this doesn't happen for the prosecution witness. Once he or she has given their statement to the police they are unlikely to see anybody again until they enter the witness box. It's just possible the CPS lawyer will speak to them in the witness room for 5 minutes beforehand but that's by far from being a universal practice.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to say that the situation is better in my (Mags) court but it isn't. The usual shambolic performance is now being exacerbated by industrial action by lawyers in respect of the legal aid cuts. The look of confusion on the faces of defendants & witnesses says it all. The bench and the legal advisors try their best to explain what is going on because no one else seems to be bothered. Incompetence at every level is the norm and this is now underpinned by indifference. Their seems little or no consideration given to nervous witnesses and I don't see that changing any time soon.
ReplyDeleteThere is of course the Witness Service volunteers who do what they can to assist witnesses waiting to give evidence. Sadly, like every other bit of the justice system, they have very little funding to continue or even expand what could be a very good and comforting presence for those not used to the court process.
ReplyDeleteRound and round we go, trying to run a Rolls-Royce system on Cheap Lager money. Surely neither Cicero nor John Fielding would think the current system made much sense. Time for that most difficult of things - an honest reappraisal, time to ask 'what are we trying to achieve?' and how to counterbalance the tendency of humans at all levels to lie, play games, make mistakes, be lazy, take advantage and more rarely act nobly. But no-one seems willing or able to take on the task so round and round we go.
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