tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post6897380872138376640..comments2023-07-10T10:57:18.522+01:00Comments on The Magistrates' Blog: Oh Say Can You See?Bystander http://www.blogger.com/profile/10211688955428527960noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-82230740447453501612012-08-07T23:34:34.281+01:002012-08-07T23:34:34.281+01:00Tony should reflect on what sort of legal systems ...Tony should reflect on what sort of legal systems and political systems existed in France, Spain, the Italian and German Electorates, Principalities and what-have-you, in the late 18th century and then he might be able to more easily discern what the fledgling United States imported from England.<br />Just because a particular thing was imported 200 years ago doesn't mean it hasn't changed in the intervening centuries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-32961430646801061142012-07-10T08:19:53.861+01:002012-07-10T08:19:53.861+01:00Tom Paine is one of my heroes, and the only Foundi...Tom Paine is one of my heroes, and the only Founding Father born and bred in England (in Thetford, indeed). He went to America for freedom's sake, and when he thought his work was done there, he went to revolutionary France for the same reason. After that was finished, he invented the old-age pension, coupling it with a capital injection of £15 (about £1080 today) to be given to each new adult at 21. Both were to be paid out of taxes on the rent of land.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-46403597325532463942012-07-09T19:18:44.557+01:002012-07-09T19:18:44.557+01:00The jury is rather a Norman than a Saxon instituti...The jury is rather a Norman than a Saxon institution. Originally, the jury was just a group of the neighbors, who were called on because they knew the facts of the case and could speak truly (Latin "vere dictum") about them. Only later, but long before the settlement of America, comes the idea that they ought to hear witnesses and determine their verdicts by the credibility of those witnesses. And though the common law has pan-Germanic roots (including Scandinavian elements in the customary law of Normandy), it exists in America only because of the form it took in England over the centuries.<br /><br />Finally, I said nothing about the franchise: I spoke of the rights of Englishmen. And if Bostonians dumped tea in the harbor, the Long Parliament judicially murdered its King.<br /><br />Defense Brief: Tony is no American, or he would use double inverted commas (or quotation marks, as we call them) instead of single ones!<br /><br />And that's all.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-38693839459976607152012-07-09T19:13:44.945+01:002012-07-09T19:13:44.945+01:00The English BoR is addressed to the King rather th...The English BoR is addressed to the King rather than the government, but the King <i>was</i> the executive branch in 1689. Many of its provisions appear in the Constitution or the U.S. BoR, including: the right to petition the government, the prohibition against standing armies without legislative consent, the individual right to bear arms, freedom of speech and debate in the legislature, the right to trial by jury in criminal cases, and that "excessive bail ought not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" (word for word the same except for the change of "ought" to "shall").<br /><br />It's true there is no federal common law of crimes. But federal criminal law is a very small part of criminal law, mostly applying to interstate crimes, crimes in post offices, military bases, and Indian reservations, and so on. What is more, criminal law is only a very small part of the common law. The law of real property, of torts, and of contracts remains fundamentally the same in both countries, and almost all of it is judge-made.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-79789541167967489392012-07-09T19:06:47.073+01:002012-07-09T19:06:47.073+01:00I keep losing the message I'm writing, so I...I keep losing the message I'm writing, so I'm going to write it in smaller parts.<br /><br />By "single executive" I mean the King. You made your kings ceremonial and delegated their powers to a committee of the Council that by convention consists entirely of legislators. We set up an elective monarchy but limited its duration to four years at a time (for a maximum of ten, latterly).<br /><br />The differing roles of the Speaker are part of that separate development I mentioned. Common origin is no guarantee of similarity. For example, the English and German languages had a common origin about 2000 years ago, readily seen in such pairs as man:Mann (still the same), hound:Hund (the English word took on a more restrictive meaning), water:Wasser (German underwent a systematic sound change).John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-16945757862165892172012-07-09T18:47:16.442+01:002012-07-09T18:47:16.442+01:00North Bucks JP: I quite agree, I abhor the death p...North Bucks JP: I quite agree, I abhor the death penalty, and I look forward to the day when it vanishes not only from my country but from my planet.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-61697281180596325452012-07-09T11:39:30.831+01:002012-07-09T11:39:30.831+01:00Some of the philosophy which motivated founding fa...Some of the philosophy which motivated founding fathers such as Thomas Paine is extremely interesting and praiseworthyKellyhttp://kwlegal.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-27763566509958134322012-07-09T00:42:36.512+01:002012-07-09T00:42:36.512+01:00It has been my opinion for some time now that the ...It has been my opinion for some time now that the US of A is politically evolving (devolving?) back to a monarchy of its own design. My reasoning is this: once the obscenely wealthy have all the loot (and it won't be too much longer), what else is there available to prove one's innate superiority on earth?<br /><br />A royal title bestowed by God himself.<br /><br />All hail the Brothers Koch, Dukes of Kansas and Iowa, and of Omaha, Thanes!Old Geezernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-556370086679692502012-07-08T20:19:26.456+01:002012-07-08T20:19:26.456+01:00There is much to admire; extraordinary rendition (...There is much to admire; extraordinary rendition (kidnapping), use of drones to kill foreign national on presidential sign-off without trial (murder), use of torture, imprisonment without public trial, detention without representation, misuse of legislation to ensure extradition, execution of the insane, refusal to recognise the ICC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-43119562381673444632012-07-08T18:43:02.530+01:002012-07-08T18:43:02.530+01:00Thanks for that. I just rechecked and got the same...Thanks for that. I just rechecked and got the same on google percentage calculator. <br /><br />Americans also imprison people for longer. Our 0.13% is a revolving number because of shorter sentencing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-36685545244970993992012-07-08T10:03:47.165+01:002012-07-08T10:03:47.165+01:00it's more like 0.67% for the America compared ...it's more like 0.67% for the America compared to 0.13% for Britain...<br /><br />But I think this is (partly) due to the Americans having the space to incarcerate people. Would it be much different if we (UK) had 400,000 (v.roughly the equivalent) prison places instead of 80,000. Is it actually a reluctance to imprison people or merely that we can't afford it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-33392230641498514922012-07-08T00:48:08.103+01:002012-07-08T00:48:08.103+01:00Okay I will take a shot at it. We imprison less t...Okay I will take a shot at it. We imprison less than 0.2%. America imprisons over 6%. Sorry for the imprecision but my math is not that good.<br /><br />Perhaps they have more inmates because the police were pro-active and the courts sentenced heavily because that was what the public thought they wanted.<br /><br />I also think that if the percentages are reversed, it looks quite good. As in 94% or 98% of the population is at liberty. We are never going to score 100%.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-26803313895940702712012-07-07T23:55:38.595+01:002012-07-07T23:55:38.595+01:00Here's Wikipedia:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wi...Here's Wikipedia:-<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rateBystander https://www.blogger.com/profile/10211688955428527960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-29406764984525087262012-07-07T23:46:55.337+01:002012-07-07T23:46:55.337+01:00Do the math, as the Americans say.
Two million in...Do the math, as the Americans say.<br /><br />Two million in a population of 300 million, as against Britain with about 85,000 out of a population of around 60 million. The US has vastly more prisoners pro rata than the UK - and the UK is one of the highest in Europe.Bystander https://www.blogger.com/profile/10211688955428527960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-21581678420982737092012-07-07T23:39:32.931+01:002012-07-07T23:39:32.931+01:002 million out of a population of 300 million does ...2 million out of a population of 300 million does not sound that much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-34195600991736833482012-07-06T20:44:55.853+01:002012-07-06T20:44:55.853+01:00TDB@: The UK 'Bill of Rights' (1689) mostl...TDB@: The UK 'Bill of Rights' (1689) mostly concerns the Crown, its powers, and limitation thereof. That hardly compares to the first 10 amendments of the US constitution, except for the title by which the two documents are known.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-7408191422773887152012-07-06T15:47:00.734+01:002012-07-06T15:47:00.734+01:00"Independent viewpoint" = ignoramus.
An..."Independent viewpoint" = ignoramus.<br /><br />And yes, academics have written about these matters. In law textbooks. That's why you know nothing about it, Tone.Ed (not Bystander)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-4503008814505340052012-07-06T14:45:23.603+01:002012-07-06T14:45:23.603+01:00Art 6 Clause 2 of the US Constitution requires all...Art 6 Clause 2 of the US Constitution requires all state-appointed judges to follow federal law when there is a discrepancy between his state's laws and the US Constitutional law. We call it the the 'Supremacy Clause', it makes the USA into a nation. So Mr.F's Virginia example isn't that important.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-560574057666816422012-07-06T14:15:41.327+01:002012-07-06T14:15:41.327+01:00On a quick reference search:
US vs Hudson and Goo...On a quick reference search:<br /><br />US vs Hudson and Goodwin 11 US 32 (1812): Federal courts have no jurisdiction to define common law crimes and there must always be a constitutional statute defining the offence and the penalty for it.<br /><br />Admittedly, Virginia Code 1-200 does recognize the prior English common law BUT ONLY so long as it is 'not repugnant' to that Commonwealth's Constitution and Bill of Rights, i.e., the common law can be over-ruled by or is subordinated to constitutional law.<br /><br />I believe that there are examples of common law offences elsewhere in the US, but that the sentencing must still be constitutionally defined. However, must admit cannot remember exactly where to find them.<br /><br />Some academics must have written on the subject.<br /><br />But, anyway, no further responses from me to people who respond to independent viewpoints with insults.Tony Frostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-45443681233421584082012-07-06T11:07:12.361+01:002012-07-06T11:07:12.361+01:00It's Mr F's capacity to twist the facts th...It's Mr F's capacity to twist the facts that most disturbs. I don't know what his qualifications are, but I wouldn't trust him to sit in judgment or advise on matters of any import. Far too prone to present things in such a way as to suit (i.e. fit in with) his own blinkered perceptions.Man on the Village Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02420025319687905046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-40649559061216338152012-07-06T00:53:02.063+01:002012-07-06T00:53:02.063+01:00I unreservedly apologise, Tony. Do share with us w...I unreservedly apologise, Tony. Do share with us what your legal training is.Ed (not Bystander)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-42001211067066530982012-07-05T21:15:33.291+01:002012-07-05T21:15:33.291+01:00The House of Lords is primarily a revising body in...The House of Lords is primarily a revising body in practice, but there is nothing to stop legislation originating there; in fact the Crime and Courts Bill is a HoL bill.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-19588254213509501532012-07-05T17:31:48.154+01:002012-07-05T17:31:48.154+01:00Sorry Ed not B: Try reading before insulting. You...Sorry Ed not B: Try reading before insulting. You might learn something. Above are a list of facts, except the last, which, as stated, is indeed open to debate.Tony Frostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-32096684538690369442012-07-05T16:37:03.170+01:002012-07-05T16:37:03.170+01:00Mr Frost is not encumbered by any "training&q...Mr Frost is not encumbered by any "training" or "knowledge". He is instead gloriously, fully equipped with opinion untrammeled by mere facts.Ed (not Bystander)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-65900871254609370192012-07-05T15:49:02.538+01:002012-07-05T15:49:02.538+01:00I too have great admiration for many things Americ...I too have great admiration for many things American, and have visited a couple of US courts to see they work. But one I cannot get my head around is the incarcerating of those under the death sentence for up to 20 years, and then executing them. By any measure that is cruel and unusual treatment of people, which runs contrary to the Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution.north bucks jpnoreply@blogger.com