tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post5508735497337109218..comments2023-07-10T10:57:18.522+01:00Comments on The Magistrates' Blog: La Commedia è Finita!Bystander http://www.blogger.com/profile/10211688955428527960noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-63222656143467916472013-03-29T21:50:36.957+00:002013-03-29T21:50:36.957+00:00On what earthly basis?! You don't set a tariff...On what earthly basis?! You don't set a tariff and then add to it because of a not guilty plea. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-8571542954429905062013-03-19T12:42:54.811+00:002013-03-19T12:42:54.811+00:00Whether 8 months was reasonable or not, isn't ...Whether 8 months was reasonable or not, isn't it somewhat perverse that the not-guilty plea was overlooked by the judge? Surely she should have got 8 months plus 10%. A bad message sent. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-65715605868150607612013-03-15T18:35:13.083+00:002013-03-15T18:35:13.083+00:00A costs hearing is to follow in due course. Shoul...A costs hearing is to follow in due course. Should be interesting!<br /><br />Also, worth noting how little was said about the jury system when the second jury convicted Pryce but the jury system was on its deathbed when the first jury was discharged.<br /><br />It is always amazing how wealthy people will fight a totting disqual. Had Mr H taken the ban then people would at least have had some respect for him and the costs of a driver for the length of the band would have been massively less than what he might have to pay in costs. For myself, I do not believe that receiving a totting driving ban would have made him unelectable. It's the lying that sunk him.ObiterJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04544226917595022902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-44935031191221942432013-03-14T20:43:01.861+00:002013-03-14T20:43:01.861+00:00Nonsense, Nationalist. No injustice would have bee...Nonsense, Nationalist. No injustice would have been done if she had got a bit more than he - he pleaded and she tried to blame him - if she had succeeded that would have upped his sentence. She went along because - at the time - she did not want him banned any more than he wanted to be banned. <br /><br />Then, later, she wanted revenge. And she got it. And it cost her. Good.Andrew Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273362558325263161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-45591360669395892742013-03-14T14:46:34.231+00:002013-03-14T14:46:34.231+00:00A FOAF who used to work for Pryce is on record as ...A FOAF who used to work for Pryce is on record as saying that he's rather put his hand in a blender than get the wrong side of her. Nobody I know who's had any dealings with her believes for a moment that she was coerced: she simply isn't the sort of person you can coerce.chris yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07556240635442613879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-37588135039261675672013-03-14T14:43:51.753+00:002013-03-14T14:43:51.753+00:00If it's really true that he asked her to take ...<i>If it's really true that he asked her to take the points, she refused, so he filled in her name anyway and sent off the paperwork and he just went along with it, then I'm surprised he did not get a much stiffer sentence than her.</i><br /><br />A FOAF who used to work for Pryce is on record as saying that he'd rather put his hand in a blender than get on the wrong side of her. None of the people I know who also know her believe for a moment that she was coerced: she simply isn't the sort of person you can coerce.chris yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07556240635442613879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-6708196655766138702013-03-14T10:38:15.506+00:002013-03-14T10:38:15.506+00:00@westofthelaw, I was not aware that forced disclos...@westofthelaw, I was not aware that forced disclosure predated cameras and I am aware that the law is the law and all avenues of appeal re s172 have been exhausted - even the ECHR has pronounced it lawful (albeit a majority decision not unanimity.)<br /><br />However I regard it as a violation of natural justice and I suspect most other people do as well, which is why point-passing is so widespread. I know a woman who simply gave the name and address of a friend in America and never heard any more from the "safety partnership". And I never reported this to anyone! Me bad! I expect most people know someone who has done something similar.Nationalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00298563601180545788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-68244285335065704652013-03-13T22:22:44.145+00:002013-03-13T22:22:44.145+00:00This would be very difficult to reconstitute. He w...This would be very difficult to reconstitute. He was disqualified as a totter very soon afterwards for a mobile phone offence, which 'removed' those points. It was open to the judge to impose a ban, or even confiscate his car. He does not appear to have done either. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-62815441041061203292013-03-13T21:35:41.755+00:002013-03-13T21:35:41.755+00:00Swansong, I think you mean "exceptional hards...Swansong, I think you mean "exceptional hardship". Indeed, it is not inconceivable that a court could have found exceptional hardship in the Huhne case, had he advanced his particular circumstances at the time. There's little point in speculating, however, as he chose a different course, which has now cost him very dear (very much more than it would have cost him to call on the services of Mr Freeman or another motoring specialist). <br /><br />As regards s172 prosecutions, my only comment is that there would seem to be some extraordinary machine in every sorting office in the land that munches up notices of intended prosecution etc. and means that even people who otherwise have no issues with their mail deliveries fail to receive any of the five or six letters that precede a s172 conviction, but they almost all receive the letter infoming them that they've received 6 points and a fine of £600 or more plus costs and the VS in time to appeal to the Crown Court. It would be interesting to know what percentage of Crown Court time is taken up with s172 appeals. A fair chunk would be my guess. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-27644092221063301182013-03-13T21:25:53.256+00:002013-03-13T21:25:53.256+00:00I suspect that it is very widespread and know of a...I suspect that it is very widespread and know of at least one Police force who have an officer solely to investigate speeding offences where the owner of the vehicle has nominated an alternative driver. <br />As is usually the case with Police work it comes down to simply practicalities in that it depends on what camera was being used. If it was a Gatso, then it only takes a rear view picture of the vehicle and is of no evidential value (in terms of indentifying the driver). If it was a Truvelo, then these take a frontal view and it's generally easier to visually confirm the driver.<br />Anecdotally I think that the 2 year/6 point limit for new drivers has only exacerbated this trend.<br />Cockney Coppernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-52359246855609432482013-03-13T21:20:56.999+00:002013-03-13T21:20:56.999+00:00I'd love to say that this is an outdated relic...I'd love to say that this is an outdated relic of ages past, but the incidence of coercion within relationships is hard to deny, and is especially prevalent in conjunction with the threat of violence or oppression. The courts are inundated with cases involving domestic violence and abuse of many kinds, and there is something in me that clings to the notion that coercion within a relationship should be capable of constituting an absolute defence, and not just mitigation. Of course, such coercion is possible within any type of relationship, including the most tenuous, and especially those where one partner is particularly vulnerable. It is clearly iniquitous for this defence to be available only to wives and not to partners in civil partnerships, or same sex spouses (from countries where such marriages already exist), whether male or female - it has to be a wife coerced by her husband. <br /><br />So my tentative view is that such a defence should remain, but be extended to all relationships (and to both sexes, even if most domestic abuse is committed by males against females). This is exactly the sort of thing that should be put to a Royal Commission, however, and debated by experts. <br />Kate CaveatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-46159313625840473062013-03-13T17:56:31.568+00:002013-03-13T17:56:31.568+00:00Out of interest, was his ban applied too? As has ...Out of interest, was his ban applied too? As has been noted he will be out in 4 months and quite possibly 2 with a tag. It would be ironic if he was driving around during that period. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-82756360099708648312013-03-13T14:39:57.300+00:002013-03-13T14:39:57.300+00:00@Nationalist Police have been writing to vehicle o...@Nationalist Police have been writing to vehicle owners for details of the driver since before the days of camera enforcement. The law requires them to notify the driver/owner within 14 days of the alleged offence. I see nothing wrong in this and it has been upheld by the courts as compatible with the HRA. There is a report in the papers today suggesting this practice is widespread and harmless - I suggest it is not widespread and such behaviour hits at the heart of the justice system.westofthelawnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-2114439584882145652013-03-13T14:31:27.205+00:002013-03-13T14:31:27.205+00:00Hubris, plain and simple. We have a political clas...Hubris, plain and simple. We have a political class that have no shame- look at all the liars who were fiddling their expenses. it is true power is a drug and when those who are neither suited to it or capable of discharging the duties honourably get into these positions they hang on like grim death.<br /><br />Mr H is an acknowledged liar. If this offence had bee ncommitted by joe public then no one would have batted an eyelid about the sentence. The crocodile teas from his erstwhile colleagues was nausiating. I feel sorry for his kids but for him and her they deserve what they got.<br /><br />hopefully the CPS will recover the full costs from them tooTiptopnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-79777120708038068012013-03-13T14:13:29.055+00:002013-03-13T14:13:29.055+00:00I share your dislike of S172 but we have to take t...I share your dislike of S172 but we have to take the law as it is. Chris Huhne could have acted as you suggested but 6 more points would have led to him being disqualified as a totter (unless he successfully argued Extreme Hardship.)Swansonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06115131629797099129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-53839711644627713962013-03-13T14:06:53.576+00:002013-03-13T14:06:53.576+00:00It is an unedifying case, but I cannot at all agre...It is an unedifying case, but I cannot at all agree that the sentences are harsh. Although I am not generally a great fan of prison (nor indeed of speed cameras and the modern obsession with slowing the traffic), I do think that it is inevitable for this offence, which I regard as very serious. The guideline range is 4-36 months. I would have put the starting point at 12 months for both of them. I would not give her any discount for being female, nor would I accept the argument that she was coerced - the jury rejected that. She fought the case all the way, so she gets no discount for a guilty plea. So it's 12 months for her. He has a modest discount for a late guilty plea, but no other discount. So its 11 months for him.<br /><br />In both cases this results in relatively short periods in custody, for reasons which have been pointed out elsewhere. I do no see those periods as being excessive. We simply cannot allow people to pervert the course of justice.Andrew McGeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-42310199259821373242013-03-13T13:03:01.610+00:002013-03-13T13:03:01.610+00:00As I see it he got sent down for what he actually ...As I see it he got sent down for what he actually did, in a way she got sent down for knowing about it, and sitting on it for _years_ before trying to use it for her own advantage.<br /><br />Seems to come out that if someone has taken points to get away with claiming they were forced they need to report it as soon as they practically can - or have a good defence as to what took so long (talking to a newspaper to try and sell the story probably will do more harm than good)<br /><br />Agree the cost of locking them up serves no real purpose, _except_ to show that this is not something that will incur a fine - in effect allowing the wealthy to buy their way out of this.<br /><br /><br />I think they both got what they had coming, and I do hope they go after them for the costs, specifically him for dragging this out - which should and apparently did, impact on the sentenceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-38464825783809211042013-03-13T12:35:56.971+00:002013-03-13T12:35:56.971+00:00It is a complete waste of money to imprison these ...It is a complete waste of money to imprison these two. They, or society, gain nothing from them being removed from circulation. However they needed to be punished. How restrictive are guidelines? I would have said enforced attendance between 9am and 9pm, together, in a small room doing something useful, without phone, internet, TV, radio etc. for a period of 3 months every day would have been best.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-37341557425468243862013-03-13T12:34:09.220+00:002013-03-13T12:34:09.220+00:00I was amazed that the reporter for the BBC seemed ...I was amazed that the reporter for the BBC seemed to think that Huhne had received a longer than average sentence because he had been a cabinet minister! I will have to look through the sentencing guidelines to see if being a public figure is an aggravating factor.John the Lockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06181883047761709892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-28932880450234932462013-03-13T11:46:40.202+00:002013-03-13T11:46:40.202+00:00Vicky Pryce tried to have her cake and eat it. She...Vicky Pryce tried to have her cake and eat it. She wanted to get off but get Huhne sent down. That was always going to be challenging. Her first attempt was to suggest that the points were taken by Jo White, Huhne's assistant. That failed when it turned out White did not have a driver's licence! Pryce tried to entrap Huhne three times by recording phone conversations. She did a deal with the Sunday Times, then welshed on it with the Mail on Sunday.<br /><br />This all led to the judge making some pointed comments about her at sentencing. However none of what she did apart from the Perverting Justice was actually illegal so should not have been reflected in the sentence.Nationalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00298563601180545788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-37685344760274177262013-03-13T10:44:09.833+00:002013-03-13T10:44:09.833+00:00HUHNE got a slightly reduced sentance because he a...HUHNE got a slightly reduced sentance because he admitted his guilt (Very late in the day) I suspect if Pryce had pleaded guilty and then in mitigation said she had been pressurised her sentance would have been much reduced. Going for the the archaic defence of 'Marital coercion' looked like she was trying to wriggle out of her responsibilities.<br /><br />Personally though it does seem tough on Pryce.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-54486023407437664262013-03-13T09:17:48.013+00:002013-03-13T09:17:48.013+00:00Chris Huhne was gambling for high stakes. Without ...Chris Huhne was gambling for high stakes. Without the opportunity to drive to his prospective constituency Eastleigh, he might never have become an MP. Then he would never have become a minister then a secretary of state. And he had his eyes on party leadership. The potential rewards must have made the risk seem worthwhile.<br /><br />Of course it's very sh**y to coerce your wife to take your points. If it's really true that he asked her to take the points, she refused, so he filled in her name anyway and sent off the paperwork and he just went along with it, then I'm surprised he did not get a much stiffer sentence than her. His was the controlling mind, the instigator. She was mainly guilty of pliability. And she almost got off! The first jury were hopelessly divided. Equal sentences seems perverse. And both sentences seem excessive. Hers at least should have been suspended.<br /><br />(And I remain of the view that s172 is an abomination which abrogates the presumption of innocence. I would be Chris Huhne's greatest fan if he had just written NO COMMENT on the FPN and taken the 6 points+fine+ban on the chin. I only hope I have the fortitude to do that should a scamera ever catch me.)Nationalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00298563601180545788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-87959437018123181202013-03-13T08:34:24.706+00:002013-03-13T08:34:24.706+00:00Would be interested to hear views from the bench a...Would be interested to hear views from the bench about the availability of "spousal coercion" as a defence - not specifically in this case, but that the notion exists at all in this day and age. Shannon Rockallnoreply@blogger.com