tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post8391904255897756284..comments2023-07-10T10:57:18.522+01:00Comments on The Magistrates' Blog: A Change of RoutineBystander http://www.blogger.com/profile/10211688955428527960noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-40843891064712685292016-09-14T21:50:16.400+01:002016-09-14T21:50:16.400+01:00The point many Mags seem to miss (or ignore) is th...The point many Mags seem to miss (or ignore) is that the the NIP and Reminder is sent by first class post and therefore "deemed served". The onus then shifts to the Defendant and s/he has to show whether "reasonably practicable".<br /><br />"I never got it" seems to get many Defendants off the hook. <br /><br />The test isn't "I can't be sure s/he received it".<br /><br />It's, "is there a system in place".<br /><br />I find it amazing how many businesses conveniently forget to bring their post logs - or say that their business keeps no track of incoming or outgoing post. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-32833088093464635962016-07-13T18:26:47.998+01:002016-07-13T18:26:47.998+01:00In New York, if the only evidence of a traffic off...In New York, if the only evidence of a traffic offense is from a camera, then the only consequence available is a fine; as the identity of the person proceeding through the red light or such cannot be established, there are no points against the owner's driver's license.Ed Unnelandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-65186756829349260702016-06-30T08:52:21.153+01:002016-06-30T08:52:21.153+01:00I worked for many years in the Avionics business a...I worked for many years in the Avionics business and believe me, the default position above wouldn't be accepted there. No calibration certificate = results not accepted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-87921795670073159822016-06-25T17:57:09.715+01:002016-06-25T17:57:09.715+01:00It's interesting to hear of another police off...It's interesting to hear of another police officer doing pretty much as the one who dealt with an accident I was in some time ago. My car was stationary, in a queue of stopped cars and was hit from behind by a car driven at speed (impact speed was estimated by the police to be 40 mph, with no braking marks on the road). I wasn't hurt, but my car was written off (around £11,500 of damage IIRC). The driver of the other car wasn't badly hurt, which was a miracle, she just had air bag abrasions and was deeply shocked. She admitted being at fault at the scene (she'd been distracted and not seen the stopped cars ahead) and the police officer asked me if I felt she should be prosecuted. <br /><br />It was clear that the other driver was going to suffer a heavy financial penalty (she was young, with only third party insurance and her car was written off). It was also clear that she had learned a salutary lesson and was intrinsically honest - she immediately admitted that she had been very careless. I told the police officer that my view was that she'd suffered enough. He said that he felt the same and was going to suggest that her penalty be a driver improvement course, which I thought was a wise course of action.<br /><br />Given that the police come in for a lot of criticism from time to time, I was pleased to see that they were still allowed to apply common sense and avoid the cost of a prosecution when it was clear that society wouldn't benefit from one.<br /><br />I strongly suspect that, for some, being given a second chance by being sent on one of these courses is far more likely to result in them being less likely to drive carelessly in future.Joe Bloggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04970339748932049615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-84403332194536720892016-06-23T13:09:10.564+01:002016-06-23T13:09:10.564+01:00In Switzerland there is no points system, and the ...In Switzerland there is no points system, and the penalty for speeding is normally just a fine. If you weren't driving you can just give the bill to whoever was, it's no big deal.Bebbinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-51767118306202467742016-06-20T08:42:57.343+01:002016-06-20T08:42:57.343+01:00Are you endorsing a system in which a person has t...Are you endorsing a system in which a person has to prove their innocence?Nationalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00298563601180545788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-73105183378300048662016-06-19T12:22:09.004+01:002016-06-19T12:22:09.004+01:00You're probably more self-aware than most. :)You're probably more self-aware than most. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-85106794356661955372016-06-19T08:12:42.486+01:002016-06-19T08:12:42.486+01:00You can only impose points on the licence of a dir...You can only impose points on the licence of a director of the company if the CPS prosecute the director - which they can but rarely if ever do. Otherwise all you can do is find the company which has, as a judge said in the eighteenth century, no soul to be damned and no body to be kicked - today we could add no licence to be endorsed.<br /><br />I did one of these last year where the defendant insisted that he had sent the form back recorded delivery and it had been returned to him marked "not known at this address". It sounded unlikely until he produced an A4 envelope, sealed down, addressed to the correct address, with all the outward indicia of having been sent r/d in due time and returned as he said. He wanted me to open it so that it could not be said that he had tampered with the content. I told him to show it to the the prosecutor first and then hand it to me unopened. The legal adviser thought he should open it but blow that, if anybody was going to play Marvo the Magician in my court it was me.<br /><br />And sure enough, out of the envelope came the form duly signed and dated and nominating himself. The prosecutor was puzzled but agreed that he had not failed to nominate and dropped the charge. He told us later that the man was very lucky; he was on nine points already and would have been taking the bus home!<br /><br />The other cases from the same day was more sombre. The defendant insisted that she had sent the form back by r/d and had a slip from the Post Office to prove it. The prosecutor asked for sight of it; dropped the charge; but retained the slip because as he said the Met would want to find out what had gone wrong. Later he explained this case too. Some drivers put a blank sheet of paper in an envelope and send it off r/d. The Met now records them by r/d number and prosecute for perverting the course of justice. This woman later got four months immediate.Andrew Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273362558325263161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-64205090997094159842016-06-18T14:27:58.358+01:002016-06-18T14:27:58.358+01:00My point is that most of what was available on the...My point is that most of what was available on the course was common sense. What I needed, and received simply by the grace of a speed camera, was the message "Hey - you slipped up there - pay more attention". <br /><br />I don't have any problem with being caught, or indeed attending the course if they help some people - just pointing out it wasn't a lot of help to me.Martin Milannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-11680127988524720152016-06-18T13:26:45.843+01:002016-06-18T13:26:45.843+01:00You can't go on a fishing trip. The default po...You can't go on a fishing trip. The default position is a Home Office approved device is operating correctly unless you can cast doubt on that. "I don't think I was speeding but the machine says I was" won't do that.Jimbobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-80578546378244742332016-06-17T10:48:01.387+01:002016-06-17T10:48:01.387+01:00I know one or two people who've been on these ...I know one or two people who've been on these courses and they all thought they were useful. I think prevention of future offences in this case is better than punishment. Maybe you're the exception Martin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-24910495861304195062016-06-17T09:10:09.681+01:002016-06-17T09:10:09.681+01:00I think you can ask for valid test certificates, h...I think you can ask for valid test certificates, however, over the years (and cases), the Police and Safer Roads Partnership (or whatever they are called locally) have had their fingers burnt on this question, and have tightened up and set proper procedures in place for daily, weekly, monthly and annually testing and certificates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-26119348098539609242016-06-16T13:29:13.278+01:002016-06-16T13:29:13.278+01:00As an electrical engineer, I always had to issue a...As an electrical engineer, I always had to issue a test certificate for any equipment that we set up or checked, and as a minimum a label would be stuck on the equipment giving the date of test and when the next test was due.<br />Does a motorist have the right to ask for a valid test certificate for the speed camera to be produced for the date in question?English Pensionerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15271488641341955140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-12076596343982214592016-06-16T09:00:22.762+01:002016-06-16T09:00:22.762+01:00Actually, I constantly have m grandfather style dr...Actually, I constantly have m grandfather style driving mocked by my friends. This 37 in a 30 was, I believe, a unique experience - and one born of my being distracted as I came down a large hill.<br /><br />Is it right that I should be "dealt with"? Yes. My point is that mere fact of being caught led to my evaluating what had happened and learning lessons. The course didn't contribute very much.<br />Martin Mllannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-55452010540052685292016-06-15T23:33:45.110+01:002016-06-15T23:33:45.110+01:00Four years ago I got confused and exceeded the spe...Four years ago I got confused and exceeded the speed limit while driving an unfamiliar route on the way to a friend's funeral.<br />I was offered a speed awareness course and even after all this time I remember what it taught me and I analyse my driving awareness every journey I make. <br />Sorry if this sounds pompous!Just a JPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07461661664652281278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-62368792506166968602016-06-15T09:37:07.281+01:002016-06-15T09:37:07.281+01:00"as I am already a very careful and "sed..."as I am already a very careful and "sedate" driver." Not if you are doing 37 in a 30 limit area.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-86786068382878274642016-06-15T06:36:21.823+01:002016-06-15T06:36:21.823+01:00Ex-everything
As an ex-cop I am a fan of these cou...Ex-everything<br />As an ex-cop I am a fan of these courses. Persistent careless or dangerous drivers do tend to get picked up, and attract penalties – as they should. However these courses offer a smack on the wrist that wont jeopardise a career or job, as a ‘proper’ conviction may. In that sense they are humane. <br /><br />I had one case where a driver had suffered a minor but chronic injury from a collision they had caused – the other party was unharmed, and insurance dealt with the rest. Although they were at fault, I was more than happy to add ‘suitable for the driver improvement scheme’ in the comments section of the case, which was taken heed of. It seemed a far kinder outcome, and far fairer than a prosecution. <br /><br />From anecdotal experience, I have had three friends whom have modified their driving after these courses. And I think that is good too. I understand Martin’s sentiments: that they cannot replace the mortifying feelings if you made a genuine mistake; however, far better this course than points for a mistake. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-73623228470950042212016-06-14T22:13:21.070+01:002016-06-14T22:13:21.070+01:00You have the power to impose points on one or more...You have the power to impose points on one or more directors in that situation.<br /><br />Of course, if your statement about who had access to the vehicle was true CPS could have prosecuted the speeding to, a signed s172 request is not the only way to prove driver identity.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-10879688215535573622016-06-14T12:43:12.390+01:002016-06-14T12:43:12.390+01:00I attended a speed awareness course a couple of ye...I attended a speed awareness course a couple of years ago - quite a humiliating and pointless exercise in my case, as I am already a very careful and "sedate" driver. The course taught me nothing.<br /><br />However, being caught in the first place taught me that I had, on one occasion at least, lost focus on my driving and allowed my speed to creep to 37 in a 30mph limit. My own conscience took over at that point - the course itself had little to contribute...Martin Milanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07537976349556078708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-75572136425058172642016-06-12T12:06:51.871+01:002016-06-12T12:06:51.871+01:00https://www.ttc-uk.com/aboutus/https://www.ttc-uk.com/aboutus/Biscwuitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-49339304773168006522016-06-12T11:32:17.170+01:002016-06-12T11:32:17.170+01:00"Just who are these shadowy organisations?&qu..."Just who are these shadowy organisations?"<br /><br />I think you will find that the AA is one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-54511022935869259362016-06-12T10:18:14.488+01:002016-06-12T10:18:14.488+01:00Hmph ! Speed cameras are also a lucrative source o...Hmph ! Speed cameras are also a lucrative source of cash for the organisations that run the speed awareness courses. Just who are these shadowy organisations ? I think we should be told. Frasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-67230542887164949682016-06-11T19:20:51.552+01:002016-06-11T19:20:51.552+01:00There is another problem with s172 cases and that ...There is another problem with s172 cases and that involves company vehicles. You can't give a company points! I sat on one such case about 5 years ago and I remembered the company's name. Well I never - about a year later the same company came before the court for the same offence and I was chairing. They had also hired the same top notch lawyer to represent them. He recognised me and I him. In a funny sort of way we dispensed with the preliminaries, found the company guilty as they had made no effort to establish who was driving, and virtually said as much. We did know it was the boss's Roller and no one else was allowed to touch it! Company was rewarded with a substantial fine plus costs and VS to remind them of their duty to society. But that was all we could do and it illustrates that bosses like this can flout the law and will pay any amount not to get points.Too old JP.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02851367026495221466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-66697435161108923062016-06-11T18:47:41.754+01:002016-06-11T18:47:41.754+01:00I know people who knowingly speed wearing a basket...I know people who knowingly speed wearing a basketball cap and dark glasses, in France you can refuse to identify the driver if it is a relative... an amazing number of twin brothers exist in France.<br />In Switzerland no such problem, any traffic offence is attributed to the cars owner (or company CEO if its a company car), unless proven otherwise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-29955927903132688032016-06-11T12:25:37.322+01:002016-06-11T12:25:37.322+01:00I sat on plenty of these before they were (thankfu...I sat on plenty of these before they were (thankfully) moved elsewhere. Typically, the defendant would claim not to have received the Notice of Intended Prosecution or the reminder letter. Funnily enough, the Summons normally made it through the post. <br /><br /><br />There were a few acquittals, generally when there was convincing evidence of ongoing issues with the Post Office, but most defendants were convicted. Occasionally cases arose like Swansong's above, or with evidence of a reply having been sent, but these were few and far between.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com