tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post7710243736230927983..comments2023-07-10T10:57:18.522+01:00Comments on The Magistrates' Blog: To Sir, With LoveBystander http://www.blogger.com/profile/10211688955428527960noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-23433130665861397542013-06-24T15:38:40.372+01:002013-06-24T15:38:40.372+01:00The sentencing remarks are a little vague on wheth...The sentencing remarks are a little vague on whether the alleged offences all relate to the same "relationship". Assuming that it is so, whilst I am sure sentencing guidelines were followed etc. I believe that the harshness of the sentencing was excessive.<br /><br />I'm also surprised that he voluntarily came back; I was under the impression that the UK would only be able to charge him with offences which are valid in both countries, or are actually on the EAW, and that surely would have significantly decreased the number and level of charges.anonimousenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-44554704922084355792013-06-23T11:32:22.276+01:002013-06-23T11:32:22.276+01:00Here's the judge's speech in full:-
http:...Here's the judge's speech in full:-<br /><br />http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/sentencing-remarks-hhj-lawson-qc-r-v-forrest.pdfBystander https://www.blogger.com/profile/10211688955428527960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-72123072932348958062013-06-20T21:21:30.518+01:002013-06-20T21:21:30.518+01:00Please God that she is alive and that she and her ...Please God that she is alive and that she and her abductor are found. The issue of a CYPA order would be a minuscule one against the joy of her return.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-77304413261805515122013-06-20T21:18:00.137+01:002013-06-20T21:18:00.137+01:00If I have understood correctly, it is thought like...If I have understood correctly, it is thought likely that he may have pleaded guilty to one or more under-age sex offences, but this will not have been reported or disclosed so as not to sway the jury, but will be addressed at the sentencing stage. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-4679228447361484792013-06-20T19:29:30.274+01:002013-06-20T19:29:30.274+01:00So, he's been found guilty, which given the sp...So, he's been found guilty, which given the specific wording of the 1984 Child Abduction Act was probably to be expected.<br /><br />I expect the sentence, whatever it is, when handed down tomorrow, will be denounced by the Daily Wail et al as being too lenient, given that he has been branded as a paedophile by the CPS.<br /><br />Is this stupid and irresponsible young teacher REALLY a paedophile?<br /><br />It seems to me that the young girl in this case shares a significant burden of responsibility. I know that she was, legally, under the age of consent, and hence still a minor, but she was over the age of criminal responsibility and over the age of informed consent, so has to have been considered to be aware of the consequences of her own actions. By her own admission she was the instigator of this relationship, she was the willing partner, she was the one who applied emotional pressure to the teacher to run away to France, yet now she has to carry the additional burden of seeing the person she seemingly has a strong emotional attachment to go to prison, partly on her behalf.<br />VP959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-57308358022363623042013-06-18T09:54:51.270+01:002013-06-18T09:54:51.270+01:00Or even 'is'. But (for once!) I think I ag...Or even 'is'. But (for once!) I think I agree with Andrew. Quite worrying.<br />Kate CaveatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-65660772544631136852013-06-18T07:53:17.161+01:002013-06-18T07:53:17.161+01:00What a waste of money!What a waste of money!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-46076908179786938932013-06-17T18:06:22.323+01:002013-06-17T18:06:22.323+01:00What will happen to the CYPA order if Maddy McCann...What will happen to the CYPA order if Maddy McCann's abductor were ever to face a trial? rex_imperatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-59587684650707306662013-06-16T10:35:26.734+01:002013-06-16T10:35:26.734+01:00"Anyone know why he's only being charged ..."Anyone know why he's only being charged with abduction and not sexual activity with a child?"<br /><br />The maximum sentence for child abduction is, I believe, more severe, plus the burden of proof is perhaps less onerous. The mere fact that he is alleged to have taken a minor out of the UK seems to be a clear breach of the Child Abduction Act 1984, although I suspect that that act was aimed dealing with the actions of estranged parents rather than a case like this.<br /><br />The under age sex aspect could have been seen as a bit of a legal minefield for the jury by the CPS, given that the girl was over the age where she could have been assumed to have made an informed decision, even if the act itself was unlawful and that she appears to have been a willing participant, or perhaps was even the instigator (based on the evidence she herself has given so far in this case). <br />VP959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-8955130014313607232013-06-16T04:30:42.219+01:002013-06-16T04:30:42.219+01:00Despite the fact that we all know her name (I, at ...Despite the fact that we all know her name (I, at least, remember it from the news articles when she was still missing), I still support suppressing its publication now. She doesn't need her name and face all over the national press again.<br /><br />Anyone know why he's only being charged with abduction and not sexual activity with a child?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-48734807180137159112013-06-15T15:29:20.602+01:002013-06-15T15:29:20.602+01:00It is the very fact the Government cannot be relie...It is the very fact the Government cannot be relied upon to act as controller, directly or indirectly, of what we can know which makes it imperative that neither of these so-called Royal Charters are ever put in place.Andrew Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273362558325263161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-73526316571227945642013-06-15T12:30:58.151+01:002013-06-15T12:30:58.151+01:00Err... Aren't we all forgetting that the reaso...Err... Aren't we all forgetting that the reason that her name was out in the papers was because people were trying to find her for her own safety? If they hadn't have gone to France, necessitating a Europe-wide manhunt to safeguard a girl who (for all we knew at the time) could have been in very real danger, her name would never have been reported. Martinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-75692812878137119572013-06-14T18:45:12.072+01:002013-06-14T18:45:12.072+01:00These gagging laws are never perfect. There was re...These gagging laws are never perfect. There was recently a highish-profile rape case, obviously no names here, in which the victim (a word I only use where there has been a conviction) was related to a well-known family in a part of Ireland which I will not specify. That made her identity juicy news there and she was named in the local press. <br /><br />Now, if you know where to look, there are shops and news-stands in the cities with big Irish populations which sell a huge range of local Irish newspapers, and of course the issue with her name was on sale. And there is nobody whose job description includes leafing through foreign newspapers "just in case" and nor should there be. So I doubt if anybody was even technically guilty of any offence. <br /><br />Any further upset caused to the young woman was, I fear, just too bad.Andrew Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273362558325263161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-77566715234825518502013-06-14T18:38:41.614+01:002013-06-14T18:38:41.614+01:00There's an additional problem here She has a v...There's an additional problem here She has a very unusual name, very likely shared with nobody else in the UK. Privacy from now on will be difficult.<br />I see that another case has been reported today. The media is still reporting the 14 year old's name, but probably not for much longer. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-78183677433311671782013-06-14T09:23:48.129+01:002013-06-14T09:23:48.129+01:00It is the very fact that the media cannot be relie...It is the very fact that the media cannot be relied upon to treat information that they are given, judiciously and responsibly, which makes it imperative that the Government enacts its own Royal Charter and not the Press Barons' Royal Charter Lite.Ian Hurdleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17322290011259357106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-76505943873788209602013-06-14T07:59:52.143+01:002013-06-14T07:59:52.143+01:00Childrens Act 1989 s.1, requires courts to have th...Childrens Act 1989 s.1, requires courts to have the welfare of the child as paramount. Locating (suspected or actually) abducted children obviously requires and is helped by their identification to the public. It would be perverse for a court to block that publication during such an investigation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-6614565379076437372013-06-13T15:07:40.285+01:002013-06-13T15:07:40.285+01:00^ controversial^ controversialAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-75780789233671664882013-06-13T13:15:32.226+01:002013-06-13T13:15:32.226+01:00In most cases you could just prevent the naming of...In most cases you could just prevent the naming of the victim, but obviously where you are looking for her that isn't wise. I think this way works fairly well, what she needs is for this not to spring to mind when she meets people, that's all.<br /><br />This order is about protecting the young person, not ensuring a fair trial for the defendant. If the UK press published anything that prevented a fair trial, they could have been dealt with whether or not there was an order.LongformDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13410713535044129952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-75007900550488549722013-06-12T23:58:49.819+01:002013-06-12T23:58:49.819+01:00Without breaking any rules, I can say we thought l...Without breaking any rules, I can say we thought long and hard about the S39 order in the face of some very Good argument from the Associated Press. The principle reason was to keep the name out of the press, because as stated the name is being forgotten. I know the original order was varied by a DJ but only slightly. The only other upshot was my name got flashed round the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-5160340344781159172013-06-12T18:43:42.703+01:002013-06-12T18:43:42.703+01:00How can you be sure you're not breaching the o...How can you be sure you're not breaching the order by providing simple instructions for finding the name?<br /><br />If I for example published her name backwards or ROT13'd I doubt I would have much of an leg to stand on.<br /><br />(And yes, I agree it's ridiculous!)Ganesh Sittampalamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16862546723726662511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-70922790615656419512013-06-12T16:30:16.067+01:002013-06-12T16:30:16.067+01:00What is already in the domain is supposition by th...What is already in the domain is supposition by the press. What the evidence is is a different matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-80005412365291075312013-06-12T15:41:44.764+01:002013-06-12T15:41:44.764+01:00Modern technology has made it difficult or even im...Modern technology has made it difficult or even impossible to police or enforce some laws. <br /><br />I assume that a CYPA Order has been made so woe betide any reporter unwise enough to name the schoolgirl in question. However, by following Bystander's hints, anybody can obtained her identity with a couple of clicks. <br /><br />The cat is already out of the bag. How can an Order prevent publication of information that is already in the public domain?Swansonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06115131629797099129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-30136050188496166742013-06-12T14:46:16.991+01:002013-06-12T14:46:16.991+01:00It was a necessity to release both their names bea...It was a necessity to release both their names bearing in mind the situation when she disappeared. Her safety was uppermost at all times and the police will know they will sensationalize the story but if anything that will grab more attention which was what the police would have wanted at the time and ultimately in this case and others leads to their whereabouts.<br /><br />The Judge will be well versed in this case and will no doubt ask potential jurors if they are familiar with the case and if so if anything will prevent them from makeing a just decision.<br /><br />Works well in my opinionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-57951599495725846872013-06-12T13:30:54.869+01:002013-06-12T13:30:54.869+01:00Surely in this case the over-riding need was to lo...Surely in this case the over-riding need was to locate and bring home the child, which would not have happened if she had not been identified and pictured. I, personally have forgotten her name, and cannot see that it matters greatly in the overall scheme of things.<br /><br />The prohibition on naming her now has nothing to do with fairness of the trial, and everything to do with shielding a child from public intrusion.Newchodgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2727871367480602637.post-68218719762190809392013-06-12T13:12:22.039+01:002013-06-12T13:12:22.039+01:00If it were just publishing briefly details it woul...If it were just publishing briefly details it wouldn't be such a problem. What is the problem is the lurid , repeated and often inaccurate reporting that just goes on, and on, and on every 15 minutes on the tabloid news. The truth is in 99% of cases no one gives a toss and has the slightest interest. In the odd case it does the press make such a botch that it does ruin people- therefore even if ineffective in some respects the restrictions are justifiedBowstreetrunnernoreply@blogger.com